5/4/18 Report - Finding Bottles. About Grading Ancient Coins and Cobs. Lead Railroad Seals.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

A Few Recent Bottle Finds.

None of these bottles are what I would call great finds, but I was pleased to find them.  There are undoubtedly a few better ones out there.  I found these on a couple short walks I took this week.  They were all partly buried in shallow water.

Front-left is a sun-purpled bottle.  I don't find many naturally purpled bottles.

Middle-front is a Mexican Mustang Liniment bottle from Lyon Manufacturing Company, New York.

Mexican Mustang Liniment Bottle

I found a similar Mexican Mustang Liniment bottle years ago, but it was half this size.

Beside the liniment bottle is a Carter's Ink bottle.  It has a big chip to the lip.

Behind them is a tall bottle with barnacles.  It is a new bottle, but I like the proportions and aesthetic of it.  Could be decor for a nautical restaurant.

Behind that are two embossed Diet Pepsi bottles.  Not that old.

Nothing impressive, but I did like finding them and they provide a good hint that there are other old things close by.

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I received the following email from a detectorist in Ohio who had found a lead FEC seal.  I've talked about and posted a few of those in this blog before.

Hi TreasureGuide -

I'm a relatively new detectorist based in Northwest Ohio, and I ran across your blog while researching one of my recent finds that had me stumped. It seems that we've found the same item, almost a thousand miles (and over 5 years) apart! I've been spending all spring hunting a "ghost" town location in Liberty Township, Wood County, Ohio that is only a farmers field now. The town was originally platted in 1892 along a railway line that no longer exists anymore either...and of course, the town had a rail depot/station among its other buildings. This past Sunday night I found a curious lead object, crenellated all around the edge similar to a bottle cap, and clearly marked "F.E.C." on the front and "182" on the back. I had no idea what it was - I thought maybe some sort of token for a local fraternal organization - and all my research along those lines failed. I posted the find online, and one of my fellow local detectorists soon identified it as a bale or bag seal - something I had never heard of before. Having a better idea of what to call the object helped tremendously! In my previous searches that included FEC, Florida East Coast Railway came up in the results, but I foolishly discounted it as unrelated. Adding "bale seal" to the search brought up an image of your find that matched mine perfectly, and lead to your blog post: 

http://treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com/2012/09/

It's probably almost impossible to definitively date the seal, but of course the railroad's name change to FEC came in late 1895, and the seal's design seems to be consistent with the early 20th century, so the timeframe looks to fit nicely for the ghost town. Pretty neat to start piecing together the history and learn that this little, long gone town was once taking delivery of merchandise from at least as far afield as Florida. I've attached a couple pictures of the seal that I found for you to see.

I was curious to see if you may have run across any more information about the F.E.C. seals in particular? I'm mainly interested in solving the riddle of what the various numbers on the back might mean. I imagine it could be a weight, merchandise type/class, route code - who knows! So far my research has come up empty there. Any new info you might be able to share would be greatly appreciated.

As with many small 19th century towns, the railroad was clearly key to this one's existence - I've dug a couple other interesting railroad pieces during previous hunts at the same site. I've attached a shot that includes a couple of the railroad uniform buttons I've dug at the site.

Thanks in advance for any additional info! And I'm really enjoying your blog - a bonus treasure to find as a result of my research - even though it's focused on Florida and beach hunting, there's a wealth of wonderful information there even for us dirt fisherman up North :)

--

Ben Motisher

Metal Detecting Hobbyist

I sent Ben the following link along with a little other information.  I know that some of you have found similar items and will find this web site interesting as well.  Isn't it interesting to be able to trace transportation routes through metal detector finds, whether the mode of transportation is by water, rail or roadway?

http://www.railroadcollectibles.com/types-of-collectibles/railroad-station-depot-items/lead-sealers/

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I asked about coin grading agencies yesterday and found a discussion online that talked about the difficulty of grading agencies correctly grading ancient coins and how you can do that.  I think the same discussion is relevant to Spanish cobs.  Here is a part of that discussion.

Well, for me and the type of coins I collect, I find that the dealers "grading" has been fairly accurate. I collect ancients and personally, I can't stand the fact the coin is "slabbed". When it comes to grading it would be difficult to grade most ancients. I mean sure you could grade based on a theoretical "perfect" coin, but determining that would be difficult in itself! Not to mention that these coins are all manually "punched" so your coin could have high relief if being struck from fresh dies and the celator is on his tenth wing of the hammer for the day vs rusting/worn dies and striking at the end of a day!

Sorry, your own experience and trusting your dealer is the best grading system for ancients!

I lost the link to that discussion. If I find it again, I'll post it.

But how would you grade a cob?   I think that is a good question.  I guess most people want a perfect "looking" coin - one that looks like it was made yesterday, even though there was great variety, and some did not look all that good the day they were made.

I guess most people go by the economic value or what other people are willing to pay.

When it comes to bottles, I tend to like those that have been used and show signs of age rather than those that look like they never left the manufacturer.  They look too much like reproductions or something.

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The surf is three to five feet today and expected to be four to six feet tomorrow.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

9/29/12 Report - Florida East Coast Railroad Artifacts Found

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

F. E. C. Mystery Find for ID

I’ve been showing some items found at a Treasure Coast mainland site lately. There was a lot of variety. Finds covered a period of slightly over one hundred years. Most items came from the 1970s it seemed, but a 1902 nickel and a 1903 Indian head penny were among the finds. Today, though, I want to focus on a mystery item that came from the site - actually four of them.

I often say to be careful about throwing things away too quickly. You can easily regret throwing something away, but there is little risk in keeping an item until you know you know what it is.

I often discover something revealing about an item after I have had it for a long time, and I sometimes learn something that gives me some new insight or an entirely different idea about the item even after it has been sitting around for a very long time.

The first item in the group shown in the photo below was found first. It doesn’t have any apparent markings on it, but the edge, where it is jagged, looks something like how a pop bottle cap looks.

When I saw that item, I wondered what it was, and didn’t really have any idea. That is the type of item that could easily be thrown in the trash. It doesn’t look like much of anything and I did consider throwing it away, but past experience told me to hold on to it.



Four F. E. C. Railway Mystery Items



A little while later another item was found that had a similar edge, but was of a different size and about four times the thickness of the first..  The second was also symmetrical - not looking like it was ripped from a flat piece of metal, but rather, well formed.

Like the first item, it doesn‘t appear to have any markings on it. Just a similar jagged edge.

It looks like the first could possibly be made by taking one like the second example and flattening it.

The first one looked like it could have been cut out of something, maybe just a piece of scrap, but the second one is much better formed and doesn’t look like scrap at all.

The first is nearly the thickness of a quarter, while the second is the thickness of three or four coins, and is symmetrical top to bottom - looking something like two small soda bottle caps fit together, but not hollow like soda bottle caps. They are made of a heavy metal such as lead.

Then the third pops up. Now that is three items with the same jagged edge, but all three are different in size and shape.  And it looks like all three have had a piece cut off.

Then the forth comes out of the ground (also shown  in photo at top of page). The forth one, though, is complete, well-formed and clearly marked “F. E. C.” on one side and “182” on the other.

Not only is this one clearly marked, but it appears to have a stub of a wire connected to it, that might have been cut off close to the body of the item. You might be able to see the stub of that wire if you look closely above the “2.”

The third is just a little thicker than the first.

OK, the story is developing. Now having seen a very good marked example and knowing what to look for, in good lighting, ever so barely ‘F. E. C.’  can be seen on the third item.

But that is about as far as the story goes at this point. I don’t know exactly what they are. I’m confident that they have to do with the Florida East Coast Railroad now.  I think they might be some type of tag or seal that secured something, sort of like the lead bale seals that are found associated with some old shipwrecks or other historic sites.

I think the unmarked ones may have been attached to marked ones by a wire. The wire and/or the one part of the seal was cut when the item (maybe mail bag or something) was unsealed. That is my theory at this point.

I am confident that they are not buttons or tops to containers. 

Three things that could be important clues are the wire stub found on one, the fact that some are flattened, and that three have pieces cut off.

I showed these items for a couple of reasons. First is to remind you to not throw things away too soon because clues can come together over time. In this case I think you can see how the clues were adding up in the field even during the hunt, but sometimes it takes years for the clues to add up.

Second, I would like to know if any of you recognize these items and know what they were used for. I have contacted the Florida East Coast Railroad Society, and although they think the items were used by the F. E. C., they don’t know what for or when.

I am hoping that someone might be able to tell me a little more about these finds.


Added 3:16 PM:  The function of the mystery items above has now been determined with a high degree of confidence.  Now I would like to define the time period the items were used and the meaning of the number "182" as well as any other more specific details.

Thanks to Trez and Robert K. for information leading to the answer.   I'll have more on that tomorrow.

The fundraising cookout for Tom G. will be held on Nov 3 on the grounds of the Pennwood Motor Lodge in Wabasso.  This is a correction.  I previously stated it was Nov. 10, but there was a conflict and it will actually be on the 3rd at the Pennwood.  There will be a small charge and donations accepted for Tom's medical treatments.   I also hear there might be some really cool raffle items.


I've spent a couple of days talking about mainland finds, but will soon get back to beach finds.  As I often say, be flexible.  Adapt to situations and circumstances.


Not much to say about the beach.  No changes.   Still 2 - 3 foot seas and sandy conditions.  That will be the case for a while.


Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net