Showing posts with label silver spoon. Show all posts
Showing posts with label silver spoon. Show all posts

Saturday, June 11, 2016

6/11/16 Report - Silver Spoon from 1715 Fleet Shipwreck. Who Owns the Past?


Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Bill Showing Freshly Discovered Silver Spoon.
Photo submitted By Captain Jonah M.

In an email containing the above picture, Captain Jonah said, Today Capitana boys recovered a beautiful silver spoon along with some other nice pieces. Including pottery ,musket balls ,a bunch of encrusted objects. More pics coming soon.

I just received another picture of the spoon and another nice artifact from Dan B. of the Capitana crew. I'll have that for you tomorrow or sometime soon.

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Who owns the past?  That is actually the title of a book and the subject of several more books, articles, classes and lectures.  

There are three basic views.  One is that the past is owned by humanity.  That is the view held by many archaeologists.   But they seem to see themselves as the only suitable trustees, and often, instead of making the past, as represented by the artifacts they collect and study, widely available to the public, they make them very inaccessible.  Take, for example, the coins in the Florida Collection.   The public is viewed with suspicion and certainly not qualified to interpret the past.  The public is not seen as trustworthy enough to own, touch or manage the past.  To me it seems very dishonest to say that history is owned by humanity and is being preserved for the people, when the people have such limited access.

The second common view is that the past is owned by the descendants of those who created it.  For example, artifacts created by Native Americans are thought to belong to the tribes that created them. This view presents several problems.  First, it is very often not possible to precisely determine who those rightful descendants are.  Very often some group jumps in and claims artifacts when it is very doubtful that they are the descendants of the group that created the artifacts.

The silver cobs that Odyssey Marine salvaged and had to give to Spain a couple of years ago is a good example.  The cobs were on a Spanish ship headed back to Spain, but couldn't you just as well say that those cobs belonged to Peru, where the silver was mined by native laborers?  If you believe Spain gained that silver unrightfully (theft),  would the silver not belong to Peru?  I believe that Peru did make a claim on those silver coins, but unsuccessfully.   But can the modern state of Peru represent the native groups anyhow?  Now it is believed that some of those so-called native groups arrived by sea travel from the Orient.  (There was also a recent report showing that mummies from before the time of Columbus showed signs of tuberculosis, which was previously thought to have been one of the many scourges brought by the explorers.)  To me, it is not all that simple to determine the originating group or culture.  In reality, things are too complex.

The final perspective on ownership of the past holds is that artifacts may be privately owned.  We know what that means.  As I said yesterday, I am glad that so many of our treasure coins and artifacts are in private hands because of the access we have to the information and images, much of which has been posted on the internet.  The internet and other technologies has given us access to a lot of information as items change hands in public auctions or through online retail sites, not to mention the web sites provided by private individuals to display and discuss their finds and collections.

If information and images, including possibly the data for 3-D printing and reproduction, is made available on the internet, the public may not own the physical item, but they will own something almost as good - the knowledge and information the item provides and the history it represents.

Ownership (control) of the physical item is not as important as it once was.  Technological innovation will only accelerate that trend.

Yes, there needs to be more scientific analysis than what individual collectors can do at home.  No problem.  Get to it, and publish the results so the public can see it.

If the images and information are provided to the public, the science will advance much faster.  The public is not stupid.  It has and will contribute tremendously if it is allowed access.  A cloud of eyes and brains will lead to many advances.

This is one of those topics that would take much longer to cover well.  Nonetheless, I'll cut it off there for now.

In my next post,  I'll post more finds and shipwreck news.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

Thursday, April 24, 2014

4/24/14 Report - Treasure Hunter's Cookout Sat., New Relic Finds, Puffed Up Sandy Beaches, and More

 
Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.




Don't forget the treasure hunter's cookout, which will be this Saturday the 26th.

Kellyco will be there.  There are  donations from RTG Scoops, First Texas and Garrett (not metal detectors) that will be raffled off along with miscellaneous treasure and treasure related items.

There will be live music.(Caribbean style).

Bring your own beer and a covered dish to share potluck style.   There will be bbq ribs, pulled pork, burgers, hot dogs, chicken wings and sodas to drink.

Anyone can set up a table and buy/sell/swap treasure and treasure hunting related items.

Chuck said, Some of the regulars will be attending the robert marx lecture on the 25th and the meeting to discuss the new legal issues in regards to wreck salvage, I'm sure this will be discussed heavily at the cookout and maybe we will finally get organized and become proactive rather than reactive!!!!

If you don't know what that is about, go back and read the previous post in this blog.


Relic detector finds and photo by William M.

William M. is still hot on that relic trail.  Here are the latest finds.  His favorites from this group include a Sterling silver Bailey Banks and Biddle spoon and a Father Johns bottle.

Keep it up William.  Thanks for sharing.

Notice the other neat little finds in there.


Yesterday I posted a mystery photo for you to figure out and asked if you could tell what it is.

Below is a photo showing the entire item.




Fish Exo-skeleton.
 
I found this fish exo-skeleton.  It is very delicate and composed of little plates.

It is about to fall apart.  Just thought it was neat.

I don't know the name of the type of fish.  I should look it up.  Maybe someone will tell me.

Just one of the things I found while not detecting.


Below is another miscellaneous visual find from the same walk.

Copper Bow Running Light.

Yesterday morning I took a quick look at a couple of beaches.  I didn't take my detector out of the car at either of them.

The beach looked like an August beach.  I hope that is not an indication of what the rest of the summer is going to be like.

The treasure beaches haven't been much good since November, and that is almost half a year ago.  Can you believe it?

The one good thing about beach conditions now is that the surf is smooth.  Just some very small swells slowly running in.  Perfect for very easy water hunting.

There was a lot of sand on the beach though.  Take a look at the photo below.  That is not what you want to see from a treasure beach.  If you had tons of tourists running around on it, you could pick up some modern stuff.  I don't find that type of hunting nearly as interesting any more, although I do it when treasure beach conditions are poor.


I didn't bother to take my detector out of the car at the wreck beaches that I looked since the beach conditions were so poor, but I felt like swinging my detector a little, I stopped at one of the tourist beaches and hunted the dry beach.  I hit a piece of gold in just a few minutes.  Modern, of course,   It was one of those cases when it was a good thing that I was not discriminating.  The gold was about seven inches right under a bottle cap.  Seemed like someone had already detected there and picked up everything but the bottle caps. 

That is all for today.  Take a look at the overview of laws concerning underwater cultural materials in my previous post and enjoy the cookout this Saturday.  Beautiful weather for a cookout.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net
 

Monday, August 15, 2011

8/15/11 Report - Spanish Monastery & Active Tropics



Gert and Two Tropical Disturbances.

These things have been quickly popping up and then disappearing.

Gert is headed out into the Atlantic.


Want to visit a 12th Century Spanish Monastery, but not going to Spain real soon? No problem! You can find a genuine 12th Century monastery in South Florida.

The monastery was built in Spain, later converted for other uses, purchased by William Randolph Hearst in 1925, then disassembled, the stones packed in 11,000 numbered wooden crates, and shipped to the United States where it was reassembled.

http://www.spanishmonastery.com/history.html

Pretty Amazing.



Divers explored the wreck of the HMS Investigator that sank in 1854. It is full of artifacts.

Here is the link to that story.

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Underwater+treasure+trove/5232495/story.html


Silver Spoon From Spanish Galleon.

This spoon was listed for sale on eBay. It can be difficult to identify the date and source of artifacts like this. Sometimes the style or design of very old spoons or forks can look very modern. The easiest way to tell if an artifact like this is old, is to find markings on it that provide good information. Unfortunately you can't always do that.

I believe this spoon had bid of about $50 on it with a couple days remaining.

Right now there are a number of artifacts from a Spanish galleon from Argentina listed on eBay. The artifacts include things like spikes, musket balls and ceramics.



Treasure Coast Beach Forecast and Conditions.

Like I said, Gert is going away from us and won't affect the Treasure Coast.

The other two disturbances have about a 10% chance of developing into a cyclone in the next 48 hours. They won't affect the Treasure Coast much, at least not for a few days.

The wind is still out of the west. The surf web sites are still predicting a small increase in the seas around Wednesday or Thursday, but the increase is only about a foot, so that probably won't affect beach detecting conditions.

The topics have become so active, you need to keep an eye on current developments. Things are forming quickly, and so far, have then disappeared almost as quickly.


Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net