4/27/20 Report - Valuable Imitation Cobs and Coins. When Things Just Don't Look Quite Right.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Lot 1252 in Current Sedwick Auction.

See Online Auction Catalog

When you look at this coin, what do you see?  Does it look strange to you?  It probably should.

I was browsing the current Sedwick online auction catalog, and every once in a while, a coin would stick out to me.  I quickly browsed through a lot of coins, including ancient coins, coins of different centuries and different countries, different denominations and made of different materials, and featuring different designs, yet some of them just stuck out for some reason.  They just looked strange somehow.  And when I looked at the lost descriptions, I found they were described as "imitation" coins or cobs.  The one shown above is one of those.  Below is the lot description.

Caracas, Venezuela, "imitation cob" 2 reales, date "471" (early 1800s), quadrants of cross transposed, NGC AU 50, finest known in NGC census. Cal-749; KM-C13.1. 5.43 grams. Lightly toned over muted luster, with bold full details including 471 "date," two denominations (2) and "assayers" (M), three "mintmarks" (L), definitely one of the rarer "dates" for this series and a top-grade example as well. NGC #4771447-004.

We use a lot of different terms such as fantasy coin, fake, copy,  reproduction or counterfeit.  Sometimes those terms are used in a specific sense and sometimes a more general sense.  For me a counterfeit is meant to deceive, while a fantasy coin is not.  I suppose "imitation" is a general term, but I would not expect an imitation coin to be marked "copy" or anything like that.  Maybe there is a numismatic dictionary that defines the term, but I couldn't find one.

Anyhow, if you become familiar with a large number of examples, those "strange" coins might jump out at you.  It is easy to see what is strange about the coin shown above, but it might not be so easy to describe.  It looks like it was made by an unskilled person, and they didn't bother to put a lot of effort into it, but in general terms, it just doesn't look right.  If you are informed in an area, whether it is numismatics or some other area, certain things just won't look or sound "right."

One thing I should add, is that this coin, even though it is described as an imitation, that does not mean it is not worth anything.  This one is old and tells a story.  The auction estimate is $700 - $1000, and it already has a bid.  Lot 1253 is similar.  Check it out.

Here is another "imitation cob" that jumped out at me.

Lot 834 in Current Sedwick Auction.

This one looks messy.  One coin was struck over another coin, some of which shows through.

Cartagena, Colombia, copper "imitation cob" 2 reales, fantasy date "111" (ca. 1815), unique, quadrants of cross transposed, struck over a Cartagena provisional copper 2 reales (1813-14), NGC MS 63 BN. Restrepo-118.1; KM-unl; Cal-unl. A very rare type dating to the retaking of Cartagena by royalist forces in 1815, using Cartagena provisional copper coins for host flans overstruck with "imitation" designs meant to resemble Lima (Peru) cob 2 reales but with fantasy dates, this one "111" being the only one known to us (missing in all important collections), dark chocolate-brown in color with bold details including full pillars and cross, full "111" date and mintmark L, also with bold CARTAGENA visible in legend from undercoin, exceptional grade for any variety, in fact the highest grade possible, a true numismatic trophy combining rarity and quality. NGC #48372006-001.

This one is also old and has a lot of history behind it.  It is selling for a very good price.

I didn't plan to talk about imitation coins this morning, but these things just jumped out at me and I thought it was interesting.  Sone copies or counterfeits can be worth a lot.  If you look at enough examples, things that just don't look quite right will jump out at you.

There are a lot of curiosities to explore in the third session of the current Sedwick auction.

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I was planning on posting about some metal detector tests today.  I'll get back to that some other day.

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It seems like the surfers are having the same problems that the detectorists are, and they are suffering withdrawal.  Here is one sentence from an article on MagicSeaWeed that you might like to read.

For the first time in generations, surfers are having to skulk around and risk running afoul of the law if they are to ride waves. It’s like the 1950s all over again!

Here is the link.

https://magicseaweed.com/news/surf-bans-public-shaming-and-the-art-of-civil-disobedience/11848/

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I mentioned cause of death the other day as it relates to what we are seeing as Covid-19 statistics.  Tim M. sent this example.

My father, an Air Force veteran through out the "conflict" from 1957 through 1975 died of multiple cancers primarily agent orange specific leukemia. Death certificate states COPD.

That is one of the types of thing I was referring to.   For data to be meaningful, it has to be coded consistently and reliably.  Classification categories need to be clearly defined along with clear criteria for class inclusion.

In the past I've talked about the importance of definitions as they apply to metal detecting.  How, for example, do you define success?   If you are very clear about what you want to accomplish, your chance of success, as you define it, will be improved.

Tim also said.

I have been reading your blog for years now, and truly enjoy the knowledge you share. I personally  would be happy to pay a monthly or yearly subscription fee to continue to have the privilege of the continuation of the education you provide. '

Also I am completely on the same page as the sad state of people thinking beyond what media is promoting without any real scientific factual basis. 

I was most gratified by Tim's reference to "education."  

When I referred to subscription I wasn't necessarily talking about a fee, however I might be able to provide an upgraded level of specific timely service for a few folks that might find it worthwhile.

I'm still thinking about what I might want to do.  

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I've also been thinking about expanding on my formula for success.  I have a factor or two that I haven't yet added to the formula even though they should be added.

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The surf is supposed to be a touch bigger this week, but only up to around two or three feet.

As I've said some of the Indian River County beaches will reopen tomorrow.  I'll be watching for St. Lucie County news.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

4/29/19 Report - Incidental Sight Finds: Insulators. $30 Billion Dollar Treasure Story. Cookout Huge Success.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Blue Hemingray 19 Insulator.

I recently added a couple finds to my insulator collection.  One is a green Hemingray - No 9. (below), and the other is the blue No. 19 Hemingray shown above.

The green one  is in very nice condition. Otherwise it is nothing very special.

When I first saw it I thought it was broken because just a small piece of it was sticking out of the sand.  I almost didn't take the time to dig it up, but was glad I did.

It was just walking along and area where I've been many times before and wasn't really expecting much of anything because of the accumulating sand.  It was certainly not the place to expect coins.

Hemmingray No. 9 Insulator.

The blue insulator is the better one.  I don't know how much it is worth, but I saw the following ad.

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HEMINGRAY

[070] (F-Skirt) HEMINGRAY (R-Skirt) No 19 SDP

Cobalt Blue . . . . . . . . . . . $350-400

The least expensive Cobalt Blue insulator you can find! Be careful not to confuse this color with the very common Hemingray Blue.

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I don't know if it is worth that much, but it is my first blue insultor, so I'm happy to add it to my collection.  Now I have to learn if it is cobalt blue or just blue.

I always like sight finds, even if they are not metal.  I like a variety of types of treasure - not just metallic.  Keep your eyes open whether you are metal detecting or not.

I also learned that there are fake insulators.  They make copies of virtually anything that might have some value.

http://www.hemingray.info/database/index.php

I'm amazed by the different ways that insulators are altered and faked.  They are altered and faked just like coins.

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Here is the beginning of big treasure story written by Thomas Whittle for Freedom Magazine, June 1986.  The title is The Mystery of the $30 Billion Treasure.

Here is the beginning.

You are about to read a story that strains the imagination. It is about the disappearance of a fortune of up to $30 billion in gold bullion. When it was first presented as a “tip” to a Freedom Magazine reporter in El Paso, Texas, in 1981, it was discounted as beyond belief. However, when dozens of unrelated, independent sources began to corroborate the story, it could no longer be disregarded, no matter how bizarre. The following story, constructed from personal interviews, documents and confidential reports, is the result of a five-year investigation...

In one of the most closely guarded crimes of recent history, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of tons of gold bullion were secretly and illegally removed from caverns on White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, the beneficiaries allegedly including former President Lyndon Johnson and individuals connected with the U.S. Army, the Central Intelligence Agency and organized crime.

The caverns are located in and around Victorio Peak, in a remote, rugged section of south-central New Mexico... 

And here is the link for the rest of the article.

https://www.freedommag.org/english/vol18I10/ 

Thanks to DJ for that link.

Good reading.

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I received the following review of the annual Treasure Hunter's Cookout.

Treasure Guide,

Hello Friends!

What a wonderful time at the 11th annual Treasure Hunters Pic Nic, I had the pleasure to visit with some really interesting folks and seriously sincere Hunters whom some I knew, and others who I had the pleasure meeting.

For the short time I was there, I reflected on my time in Base Camp in Afghanistan during Operations with all the men whom appeared to look like us during during Operation Enduring Freedom, as we deployed to that area of the world.

One senior officer was reported saying he looked at us as "Pirates of the Caribbean" all of us,, not just one particular unit...

"I mean that with respect, to all who attended this gala."

Terry Shannon and friends, Capt. Fizzmer,  Taff Fisher, 1715 Captains, The Masters from NC, Capt. White, Capt Dominic to name a few...

If I missed anyone else it's was because it was so hard to meet every one involved, and the hero of the deep who made this possible.

Food was great and hospitality was what I expected from the "Breathen of the Coast" in a sincere manner.

I also what to mention all these men and women were exceptionally nice to my young son, who they paid attention to while I was talking to the folks there.

I look forward to seeing many of them again soon, and wish all of those passionate treasure Hunters the best of Fortune Safety and Joy these coming seasons.

Thank you from one Veteran to Another.

Respectively,Pirate Booty... 
 Chris N.  

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Thanks for the report on the huge success of the cookout.

If you missed it this year, you won't want to miss it next year.

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I just got an email from Bill P. suggesting XRF analysis to determine the content of the white melted pieces.  I talked about XRF analysis not too long ago, but didn't think of it in this context.

I think that should do it, if you want to take some samples to a pawn shop or where ever they might do an analysis for you.

Thanks Bill!

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Happy hunting,

TreasureGuide@comcast.net

7/7/18 Report - Hurricane Beryl. Marie Antoinette's Jewels. Magnet Uses. Stove Polish Bottle.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Source: nhc.noaa.gov

The big news is the storm situation.  We have one system off of North Carolina and Hurricane Beryl out in the Atlantic

Its been a good while since we've had anything that might stir up the treasure beaches.  Its been several weeks of little but south winds and building beaches.

Here is the projected track of Beryl.

Source: nhc.noaa.gov

Notice that Beryl is now a hurricane but expected to turn into a storm by 2 PM Sunday as it heads in the direction of Cuba.

It looks like North Carolina is getting some north winds, but Ventusky is showing nothing but west and south winds for the Treasure Coast for the next week.

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Source: Sothebys.com

Marie Antoinette's jewels, not seen by the public for 200 years, will be auctioned by Sotheby's.

Click here to see a video of these and more of Marie Antoinette's jewels.

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I've recently mentioned a few good uses for a magnet and wanted to remind you of a couple more.  I often get pictures of iron flakes that people find on the beach and wonder if they might be cobs.  You can use a magnet, and if they stick, the objects are not cobs.

Also many fakes will stick to a magnet.  A real silver reale or gold escudo will not stick.

Don't forget to try a magnet when you have those questions.

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Stove Polish Bottle With Cork Inside.

Here is a nice bottle I found.  Almost all of my bottles are found on the Treasure Coast.  This one was found in a spring gully in West Virginia.  It is really nice and clean.

Here is one little detail that I like about it.

Glass Gouge and Lump Made While Glass Was Still Soft.

In this photo you can see where a gouge was made in the glass while it was still hot and soft.  To the left of that you can see a lump of glass when the hot glass from the gouge was dropped.

It looks like the glass blower or his assistant made a little mistake.  It is a reminder of how the bottle was made, and like errors on coins, helps you understand and appreciate the process.

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The surf is calm this morning, but like I said yesterday, it is the time of year to watch for storms.  You don't want to miss any long-awaited window of opportunity.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

7/1/16 Report - Portrait Eight-Reales Counterfeits. More On Fakes and Counterfeits. 900-year-old Oil Lamp Found.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

900-year-old Oil Lamp Found By Lifeguard
Source: ipost link shown below

Yesterday's post was about colonial counterfeits.  I just stumbled onto a book about counterfeit Spanish American portrait eight-reals, which were produced in Spain's new world colonies from 1772 to 1825,  The description on Amazon says, The book illustrates and describes literally hundreds of different types of counterfeits known to have circulated alongside the genuine versions. It specifically expands upon the Thirty-nine varieties noted by Dr. John L. Riddell as existing in circulation in New Orleans in 1845, and swells that number to some 589 varieties.  

Even if you never personally view a portrait eight-real and do not care to be able to identify a counterfeit of such a coin, I think you'll benefit from reading the book and inspecting the many examples.  It will help you learn how to more expertly inspect any coin for any of a variety of purposes, including evaluating the coin's condition, finding errors or  simply appreciating the aesthetics.  

Here is the link to the description of the book on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-Portrait-Eight-Reales-real-Reales/dp/1500497177?ie=UTF8&tag=vglnkc3605-20


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Not all fake coins are what I would call counterfeits.  Here is one dictionary definition for the word "counterfeit" - made in exact imitation of something valuable or important with the intention to deceive or:defraud.

Some fakes are not made to deceive and some are not made in exact imitation.  Some are simply souvenirs and some are fantasy pieces or toys.

Some are clearly marked "COPY."  Others not so clearly marked.  The mark can be small or in some inconspicuous place.  And the mark can be covered by corrosion or worn off.

I've found a variety of fakes over the years.  Some were clearly fantasy pieces, and others were more realistic.

The worst thing is when you are not sure if it is something good or just a cheap fake, but there is so much corrosion that you have to do a lot of very careful cleaning before you can tell.  You can spend a lot of time only to eventually find out that you have a cheap fake.

There are a few things you can do that might help you.  Try a magnet.  A magnet won't stick to a silver or gold coin.

Another thing you can do is weigh the coin.  If you know what it should weigh, that might help.  The problem is that coins might not weigh what they should weigh for a variety of reasons.  We know that some were minted slightly off.  And someone could have cut, shaved or clipped a coin.  And of course, the coin could have lost weight because of corrosion.

Some fakes are pretty realistic, and might even be made of the correct material and be the right weight.  I saw one silver cob that was very convincing, but with magnification I found the remnants of the word "COPY."  It was originally marked with a very small inconspicuous mark, and I believe the mark was intentionally smoothed down to almost nothing.

By the way, my first find of a fake cob was at Jupiter beach.  It was very encrusted.  I took pains to carefully remove the crust.  Then I got to the point that I could see most of the surface.  The design was that of an escudo, but it didn't look gold at all.   That confused me at the time.  It was probably more than thirty years ago.   I eventually figured out that it originally had a gold-colored plating that was no longer present.


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Meir Amsik, a lifeguard who works at the beach, said he came across the relic when he stopped to pick up planks washed from the Mediterranean onto the ancient southern port city’s shoreline.

“Suddenly, I saw part of a cliff deteriorating,” he said. “So I made my up way there and saw this intriguing oil lamp lying there in its entirety. I thought it might be an antique, so I picked it up.”

Here is the link for the rest of the story.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Lifeguard-discovers-900-year-old-oil-lamp-on-Ashkelon-beach-during-morning-jog-457932


Notice where he found the oil lamp - sticking out of an eroding cliff.

I always check erosion.

It also reminds me of the Jupiter wreck and how it was located.  Silver cobs had been detected just south of the inlet for years.  I knew one detectorist that lived nearby and ran into him many times. He had found a lot of cobs there. Unfortunately a jar full of cobs was stolen from the trunk of his car while he was parked at the inlet one day.  That was some time in the 1980s I would guess.  Anyhow, one day the lifeguard was on his morning swim and looked own and saw a cannon that had been uncovered.  Not long after that the salvage of the wreck began.


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Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

7/23/13 Report - Pendant Find, Gold Prices, Odyssey Marine, Fake Coins, Unlooted Tomb and Detecting Formula

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Heavy 14K & Diamond Pendant Find

The big news for me yesterday was the increase in the prices of gold and silver.  Gold went to over 1300 again.  You might remember it was way higher than that not too long ago, but took a dive.  Well yesterday, it regained over 6 percent in a day.  Not too bad!

Some are saying that silver will increase more rapidly and have a higher upside than gold.  And some are saying to expect another pull back in gold prices after the rapid increase.   You never know.

What I do know is that gold has risen dramatically over the past few years.

As for silver, I remember the days when the Hunt brothers once controlled so much silver that they pushed the prices up over $50 dollars an ounce.


This pendant find is heavier than a lot of rings.  Nice sized diamonds and sapphire.

As you know, the primary determinant of a diamonds value is quality, and after that, size.


The CEO of Odyssey Marine was on CNBC yesterday talking about the Gairsoppa and the business aspect of treasure hunting.


As you might know, there are a lot of fake coins out there.  The Chinese are making collectible and bullion coins and selling them like crazy.  I found a fake Credit Suisse bar once.   This article gives one quick and easy method for testing silver and gold coins.   Worthwhile, I think.

http://goldsilver.com/video/special-report-how-to-avoid-fake-silver-and-counterfeit-gold-products/



Archaeologists have found an unlooted royal tomb of a pre-Inca civilization from the year 700 to 100 in western Peru.  In the tomb they found more than 1,000 artifacts, including gold and silver jewelry and bronze axes.

Here is the link.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/351312/description/News_in_Brief_Pre-Inca_empire_tomb_found_untouched_in_Peru


I've decided to create and refine the TreasureGuide (TG) MDS formula.  I've previously presented a little bit of it.

Here is the main part of the formula giving the four main factors in order of importance..    S = L x ToT x Sk x D

S stands for the amount of long term success.
L stands for the quality of the primary location where the detectorist lives.
ToT (Time on Task) is time spent detecting (includes research time as well as field time).
Sk for the skill level of the detectorist/
D stands for the quality of the detector or detectors used.

I was thinking of adding a fifth factor - E for effort.   Perhaps that factor could more accurately be described as Toughness.  Whichever I end up calling it, the factor indicates a willingness and ability to work in difficult circumstances and do difficult things.  For example, the willingness and ability to walk miles to reach an otherwise inaccessible location.  The willingness and ability to work in rough seas.  Living in a truck by the beach, etc.  That is a something that makes a definite difference.

I used to have a saying that I applied to detecting.  If you don't want to do it, do it.  One example would be working in rough seas when the bottom conditions are right and your ear phones keep getting knocked off of our head by the waves.   Or, working in a dip where it is impossible to use a scoop because of the packed rocks that won't give to a sand scoop.

That suggests another factor, C (creativity) for when you need to come up with alternate approaches to deal with difficult circumstances. 

Right now I have multiplication signs between the four main factors, but I'm sure as I refine this, some will be replaced by addition signs.  I doubt that all the factors are all multiplicative.  The only thing I feel real confident about at this point is the four main factors and their relative order. 

Let me know what you think.  What important factors am I leaving out?   Should any of the above factors be in another order?


One reader wants to do something about the current Florida laws that relate to detecting, but I haven't seen very much interest by others than that one fellow.  I'm a bit surprised by that.  


On the Treasure Coast beach detecting conditions remain unchanged.  We still have the south and southwest winds with a one to two foot surf.

For value, modern finds prevail right now.  Some rusty and encrusted artifacts are being found but not cobs or treasure coins in any number.

A nice low tide is coming up today around 3 PM.

One reader has maybe found an encrusted sward handle.  I'll report on that as we find out more.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net