8/13/15 Report - Lima 8-escudos: Rare and Not So Rare. Animas River Toxic Pollution. Kudos To Garrett Detectors.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of TreasureBeachesReport.blogspot.com.

1711 Lima 8-escudo Up For Sale On eBay.

You might remember the post I did on 7/28 showing a pile of gold coins found this year by salvors working the Treasure Coast.  I mentioned that I could see some Pillars and Waves cobs from Lima in that group.

A couple days ago I did a post about what is called the Jeweled Cross Series of gold cobs.  Those are early Mexico minted cobs.

Today I'll post a bit about Peruvian gold cobs.  They were produced from 1696 to 1750.  I'll only consider those up to 1715 in today's post, and I'll just consider 8-escudos for no good reason other than brevity.

Of course the first thing you'll notice about these cobs is the nice pillars and waves design.

Compared to Columbian and Mexican gold cobs, Peruvian gold cobs are usually relatively round rather than odd shaped,  well centered, and have a clear date and mint mark.  In general they are well struck.

The mint mark is in the top left and the mint mark top right, and the date is on the bottom row.  That makes it easy enough.

There are some Lima 8-escudos that are very rare and others that are relatively common.

The 1696 H, 1701 H, and 1709 H are the most rare Lima 8-escudos of the period that I am talking about.  H is the assayer initial.  There are only five or so known examples of each of those.

The most common of those up to 1715 are the 1711 M, 1712 M, and 1713 M.  I don't doubt that one of the main reasons they are more common is because those dates would have been ready to be shipped with the 1715 Fleet.







A 1711 M 8-escudo
currently
offered for sale on eBay

I would be surprised if there were none like this in the group salvaged this year.  And maybe there are a even a few of the rare dates.

I think I'll be able to show you more of this years finds before long.

For a good detailed report on Lima gold cobs of all denominations, here is a link to a good detailed report by Sedwick Coins.

http://www.sedwickcoins.com/articles/limagoldcobs.htm

---

Since posting about the jeweled cross series of gold cobs yesterday, I've heard from two people who have found one.  I might be able to post a picture of one of those in the near future.

---

One of the most scenic train rides you can ever take is the Durango to Silverton narrow gauge railroad.  If you ever get a chance take that train.  It goes past some amazing scenery as it follows the Animas River, which at one point you can see running through a famous gorge just as you enter a tunnel.  Then when you get to Silverton, it is like you just stepped onto a TV set.  The town looks like the old West the way you see it on TV.  You can see the old silver mine right outside of town, and there is still placer mining in the area.

Maybe you've heard about the Animas River in the news lately.  That is the river spoiled by millions of gallons of toxic waste spilled into the river by the EPA!  Yes, it is the same Environmental Protection Agency that is so zealously regulates and fines anyone from huge corporations to small scale recreational miners.  And it was their fault that this horrid mess took place.  They'll pay for some of the damage, but it will come out of our pockets.

Hopefully the beautiful Animus River and other streams downstream will recover quickly.  I can only hope so.  It is a shame to see such beautiful country spoiled like that.  When it gets cleaned up, I highly recommend visiting the area if you never have, and take the train to Silverton.  Oh, and they run a Christmas Special, just like the Polar Express that would be utterly fantastic if you have kids - or not.  When it comes to things like that I still am a kid.

---

If you send me pictures or anything by email it would be good idea to if you put like Do Not Post (DNP should do) or OK To Post on the top.  I usually don't post something if I'm not sure about it.  It would just make it a little easier for me if I don't even have to think about it.    Thanks to all.

---

Kudos to Garrett Detectors.  I had a problem with a slipping arm cuff.  I called and told them and they promptly sent out a new one, which I put on my detector, and it seems to work find.  Good customer response.

---

I watched a Youtube video in which a guy was going to test and compare an ATX and CTX 3030.   After watching about a minute I could tell that the guy didn't know how to use those detectors very well.  Sometimes the detector comparisons you see are worthless simply because the detectors aren't used well.  Some detectors are easier to use than others, but it is very easy to use the ATX poorly.  You can't tell much about a detector if you don't know how to use it.  I can't believe that fellow was buying these high end detectors and was so clueless about how to use them.

---

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

8/12/15 Report - The Jeweled Cross Series of Mexican Escudos and How To Identify. Also, Bell From HMS Hood Recovered.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

1695 8 -escudo Royal (Left)

1702 8 - escudo Royal (Right)

Last month I was able to report on some of the amazing treasure being found along the Treasure Coast.  Finds included a magnificent 8-escudo Royal along with a variety of other escudos.

Today I thought I'd take a look at some other very rare 1715 Fleet coins.  I'm talking about some of the first gold cobs minted by Mexico from 1679 to 1699.  They are referred to as the The Jeweled Cross Series.  Escudos in the Jeweled Cross Series are very unique and can be easily identified by one very prominent and unique design feature not found on the escudos shown above.

Unlike the escudos shown above, the excellent example from the jeweled cross series shown beow, clearly features a series of holes or depressions along the surface of the cross.  That is the prominent characteristic of thee cobs of that series.

Note the rectangular depressions all along the cross.

In addition to the "jeweled cross" this series has another identifying feature that clearly distinguishes the jeweled cross series from Colombian escudos and escudos made in Spain.  See if you can tell what it is.

It is the rectangular shape of the tressure (box around the cross), which is completely different from the arcing tressures of the Spanish and Colombian escudos of the same period.

There are distinguishing features on the other side too.

I won't comment on the differences found on this side other than to mention there are differences in the shield.

The jeweled cross design was discontinued around 1695.  There are some jeweled cross escudos after that date, but there is some question about that.  Some are thought to be over-dated and some are thought to be incorrectly dated.

As of 2012, 80 - 90% of all known jeweled cross escudos came from the 1715 Fleet.  There are very few known examples.  Perhaps there will be new examples discovered this year.

As of October 2012,  Division reports from the State of Florida record over 6500 gold cobs reported to the state by 1715 Fleet salvors since 1963. Private salvage reports from Real 8 and other groups supplement the state reports.

All of the above photos and quotes are from a 2012 draft of a report entitled The Jeweled Cross Series of 1679-1699 by Philip Flemming.

There is much more information in that report.  Here is the link if you want more details and historical background.

http://www.goldcobs.com/pdf1.pdf

---

The bell from the battle cruiser HMS Hood, which was sunk by the Bismarck, was recently retrieved from the ocean floor.

Here is the link for the photo, story and video.

http://news.usni.org/2015/08/10/bell-of-sunken-wwii-battlecruiser-hms-hood-recovered-from-ocean-floor

---

Still no change in beach detecting conditions for the Treasure Coast.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

9/5/14 Report - Gold Cob Found By Salvage Crew On Treasure Coast! Fascinating Clump of Artifacts Too. How Objects Sink In Dry Sand.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Gold Treasure Coast Shipwreck Coin
Photos submitted by Captain Jonah Martinez

The past few days I've given a lot of information on how objects sink on the beach, and I'm far from done with that.  I've only addressed a few factors so far and will continue with that topic in the future.

Today I wanted to take a bit of a break from that and show you some finds to drool over.  The finds were made by the crews working the shipwrecks off of the Treasure Coast.   Thanks to Captain Jonah Martinez for sending the pictures.

First, here is a gold coin they found.  Although this gold coin sure is pretty, they found a silver coin that actually might be much more rare.

I'm no expert on Spanish shipwreck coins - far from it.  So if you can correct anything I say here, feel free.

Notice the type of cross on the top photo.  Each arm of the cross is like a cross on the end.

That is not a real common type of cross, but that type of cross was used on some Mexican escudos,

On the left side of that coin, I think I can make out part of the "M" mint mark for Mexico.

I can not see the legend on this coin or the date.  They do not appear to be present.




Below is a photo of what I believe is a very similar escudo.

It is found in Monedas Espanolas desde Juana y Carlos a Isabel II 1504 a 1868, by F Calico et al, 1985.

Illustration of Similar Design Escudo from the Calico et al Book.

The following illustration more clearly shows a similar type of shield and the same type of cross although there may be some differences.

Illustration of Similar Escudo Design Elements.
Source: Cobs, Pieces or Eight and Treasure Coins book by Sewall Menzel

From what I've seen I would guess the escudo above to be an early 1700s Mexico two-escudo.  That is just m guess from what I can see from the photo.


Below are two pictures of a recovered clump.   Captain Jonah says this clump of objects was found by Mike and Gavin and ... if you look close you can see to buckles, two medallions, a silver spoon and maybe cuff links...

Photos submitted by Captain Jonah Martinez.

I always find clumps exciting.  You never know what all might be in them.  And I never know if I want to leave them alone or take them apart to find what is in them.  There is that conflict between wanting to preserve them and wanting to find out what might be in there.

They can be x-rayed or examined internally by using other technologies without taking them apart.

Those are just a couple of the photos that Captain Jonah sent me.  I'll show more of them in future posts.  Included are cobs, porcelain, and one very early and exciting cob.

Thanks for sharing Captain!


The last two posts that I did received  lot of +1s.  It seems they were very much liked.

I should explain that the did not discuss all relevant factors, but maybe it did help to put to rest some common misconceptions.  I still want to add just a little to that discussion today.

First of all, people might wander how objects sink in dry sand where the water does not hit if objects only sink through suspended or disturbed sand.   One big factor affecting dry sand is the wind.  Barrier islands and beaches in general tend to migrate away from the ocean as wind coming off the ocean tends to blow sand towards the back beach where it piles up as dunes and fills in marsh land.  You can find that fact in any number of books.

On our local beaches I've seen a lot of dune building over the past year.  Any plants or anything that serves as a wind break will cause wind driven sand to drop off and build up.  That causes items lost on the dry beach to be buried as the sand builds up.

If you go to the beach after a busy holiday, you'll notice how much the busy spots have been churned up by foot traffic, kids digging, etc.  That certainly disturbs the top layers of sand and causes items to sink or get covered.

Also, the water does occasionally come up over the dry sand and all of the way to the back dunes.

And they sink in when dropped, flung or thrown.

There are some ways that the dry sand is disturbed causing things to sink or get more deeply buried in the dry sand.

I'll discuss more details on how items sink on the beach and in the shallow water in the future, but I'll also be showing some more pictures of the Treasure Coast treasure finds that Captain Jonah sent me.


We still have a one to two foot surf on the Treasure Coast.  Beach hunters are tired of the consistently smooth surf this year, but it has been good for the salvage crews.

There is one disturbance coming off of Africa, but it is days out, and we'll have smooth water on the Treasure Coast for at least several days.


Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net