7/22/17 Report - Dug Gold Band Inscriptions. 1714 Mexico Two-Escudos Over the Years. Fake Silver Ingots and Online Transactions.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Inscriptions in Dug Beach Gold Band

This small gold band was a beach find.  It fits almost exactly on the outside rim of a U. S. dime.

There is an inscription on the inside that I was wondering about.  You can see it in the photo.  It seems to read DIC  22/  87.

The DIC could be a person's initials, I guess.

I don't know about the 22/.  It is not 22 karat.

And the 87 could possibly be a year.

What do you think?

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You'll find a great research tool on the SedwickCoins web site.  Go to the auction archives.  You can browse through the old auction catalogs and also find the realized prices.  If you want to inspect the pictures in the catalog in fine detail, download the particular catalog you want to look at.  You can then see each of the lots in amazing detail.

There is a lot to study in all of those auction catalogs.

Just yesterday I noticed a 1714 Mexico 2-escudo in the most recently completed auction catalog that was in many ways similar to the one found by Grant of the Capitana.  It was the only one of that mint, year and denomination.  It sold for $2000.

Just for rough comparison, I went back to the 1977 Bowers and Ruddy auction catalog that I mentioned not long ago.  It is an old hardcopy catalog and the photos are not nearly as nice or detailed as those you will find in the digital Sedwick catalogs.  The binding is also starting to fall apart.

Anyhow, the old Bowers and Ruddy auction had a lot of listings, including 69 1714 Mexico 2-escudos.  The highest price for those lots was $500 and the low price was $175.  In other words, the most desirable examples brought about three times.

As I've mentioned before, 1977 dollars were worth about four times what 2017 dollars are worth, so that seems to be fairly close when these escudo prices are considered.

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Here is something I stumbled on while researching a found silver ingot.  It was published on www.ebay.com.  It was written in 2010, so I don't know if it is still accurate, but it raises some interesting issues anyhow.

Well, the way PayPal works, if your item is fake, (and for example, selling an ingot of .925 as .999 is regarded as fakery), then PayPal usually tell you to destroy it. Very occasionally, they may ask you to return it to them. But usually not. However, if they asked you to return it to the seller, they would be opening themselves up to aiding and abetting an offence and perpetuating a fraud, so you'll NEVER be asked to return a fake item to a seller. 

So, after you have received your refund for the fake .999 ingot, you MUST destroy what might be a .925 ingot and confirm to PayPal that you have done so! 

And what do you get for your £30 assay fee? Well, quite simply, the satisfaction of fighting fakers and counterfeiters by destroying a bar of silver. 

And of course, with an ingot in your hands that nevertheless contains 92.5% of silver, that's exactly what you're going to do - ISN'T IT; you're going to destroy that bar, rather than refine it or sell it on with the certificate?

If nothing else this should remind you to remain alert to the possibility of items being sold on ebay and similar sites being fakes.  Be very careful when buying on those kinds of sites.

I do know of one reale that was sold on ebay that was a fake and when the seller was informed, he simply refunded the payment and no return was necessary.  You might have more trouble with other sellers.

I've sold some items on eBay - mostly books and bottles - and only had trouble with one buyer, and that one was from Italy.  I easily sold the item again, so it was not a huge problem for me.  Still I would be especially careful of foreign transactions and most especially China.

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There are no storms brewing in the Atlantic or Gulf.  No change in beach conditions is expected real soon.

The year is speeding by.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

9/5/14 Report - Gold Cob Found By Salvage Crew On Treasure Coast! Fascinating Clump of Artifacts Too. How Objects Sink In Dry Sand.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Gold Treasure Coast Shipwreck Coin
Photos submitted by Captain Jonah Martinez

The past few days I've given a lot of information on how objects sink on the beach, and I'm far from done with that.  I've only addressed a few factors so far and will continue with that topic in the future.

Today I wanted to take a bit of a break from that and show you some finds to drool over.  The finds were made by the crews working the shipwrecks off of the Treasure Coast.   Thanks to Captain Jonah Martinez for sending the pictures.

First, here is a gold coin they found.  Although this gold coin sure is pretty, they found a silver coin that actually might be much more rare.

I'm no expert on Spanish shipwreck coins - far from it.  So if you can correct anything I say here, feel free.

Notice the type of cross on the top photo.  Each arm of the cross is like a cross on the end.

That is not a real common type of cross, but that type of cross was used on some Mexican escudos,

On the left side of that coin, I think I can make out part of the "M" mint mark for Mexico.

I can not see the legend on this coin or the date.  They do not appear to be present.




Below is a photo of what I believe is a very similar escudo.

It is found in Monedas Espanolas desde Juana y Carlos a Isabel II 1504 a 1868, by F Calico et al, 1985.

Illustration of Similar Design Escudo from the Calico et al Book.

The following illustration more clearly shows a similar type of shield and the same type of cross although there may be some differences.

Illustration of Similar Escudo Design Elements.
Source: Cobs, Pieces or Eight and Treasure Coins book by Sewall Menzel

From what I've seen I would guess the escudo above to be an early 1700s Mexico two-escudo.  That is just m guess from what I can see from the photo.


Below are two pictures of a recovered clump.   Captain Jonah says this clump of objects was found by Mike and Gavin and ... if you look close you can see to buckles, two medallions, a silver spoon and maybe cuff links...

Photos submitted by Captain Jonah Martinez.

I always find clumps exciting.  You never know what all might be in them.  And I never know if I want to leave them alone or take them apart to find what is in them.  There is that conflict between wanting to preserve them and wanting to find out what might be in there.

They can be x-rayed or examined internally by using other technologies without taking them apart.

Those are just a couple of the photos that Captain Jonah sent me.  I'll show more of them in future posts.  Included are cobs, porcelain, and one very early and exciting cob.

Thanks for sharing Captain!


The last two posts that I did received  lot of +1s.  It seems they were very much liked.

I should explain that the did not discuss all relevant factors, but maybe it did help to put to rest some common misconceptions.  I still want to add just a little to that discussion today.

First of all, people might wander how objects sink in dry sand where the water does not hit if objects only sink through suspended or disturbed sand.   One big factor affecting dry sand is the wind.  Barrier islands and beaches in general tend to migrate away from the ocean as wind coming off the ocean tends to blow sand towards the back beach where it piles up as dunes and fills in marsh land.  You can find that fact in any number of books.

On our local beaches I've seen a lot of dune building over the past year.  Any plants or anything that serves as a wind break will cause wind driven sand to drop off and build up.  That causes items lost on the dry beach to be buried as the sand builds up.

If you go to the beach after a busy holiday, you'll notice how much the busy spots have been churned up by foot traffic, kids digging, etc.  That certainly disturbs the top layers of sand and causes items to sink or get covered.

Also, the water does occasionally come up over the dry sand and all of the way to the back dunes.

And they sink in when dropped, flung or thrown.

There are some ways that the dry sand is disturbed causing things to sink or get more deeply buried in the dry sand.

I'll discuss more details on how items sink on the beach and in the shallow water in the future, but I'll also be showing some more pictures of the Treasure Coast treasure finds that Captain Jonah sent me.


We still have a one to two foot surf on the Treasure Coast.  Beach hunters are tired of the consistently smooth surf this year, but it has been good for the salvage crews.

There is one disturbance coming off of Africa, but it is days out, and we'll have smooth water on the Treasure Coast for at least several days.


Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

9/6/13 Report - A Little About the Nieves Two-Escudo, Fossils & Storms on the Weather Map

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

2-Escudos From Nieves Site.
From ABC Video Linked Yesterday

Yesterday I took a look at one of the eight-escudos recently found on the Nieves site.  Today I'll take a look at the 2-escudos shown to the left.

The two-escudos does not show the wealth of information shown by the eight-escudos.  For one thing, being smaller, the two does not show the legend that would in some cases appear around the edge of the cob.

I also can not relocate the photo of the other side of the two.  I do recall that it was a shield variety.  Maybe I'll relocate that image and be able to say more.

Even if I can not narrow this down as precisely as the eight-escudo that I talked about yesterday, taking a look will still be somewhat entertaining and perhaps informative.

A quick scan of Modedas Espanolas desde Juana y Carlos a Isabell II 1504 a 1868 by Calico, Calico and Trigo shows that two-escudos of near the same date were minted at the following Spanish mints.

Barcelona, Granada, Madrid, Mallorca, Segovia, Sevilla, Cuzco, Lima, Mexico and Sante Fe.  Of those, I think we can pretty much eliminate all but Lima, Santa Fe, and Mexico.  And of those three, the mint that produced the design most similar to the two-escudo shown above is Santa Fe mint.

Forgive me if I sometimes use the Spanish spelling and sometimes the English.

Cuzco only produced a few one and two-escudos during the year 1698.  

Cartegena only produced escudos before 1655, and the design of those that I've seen look different than the found 2-escudo.

Escudos produced by the Lima mint around the period of the presumed date were of the Pillars and Waves variety.

While I do not know for sure that this cob was minted during the reign of Carlos II, it would be in my opinion the most reasonable assumption.  There are also design features that to me seem to support that assumption.

If you can show me otherwise, please do so.  I haven't been able to get much more information than shown on this side of the two escudo and my vague recollection of seeing the other side.

 The two-escudos shown below is a 1712 example from the Sante Fe mint found in Sewall Menzel's book Cobs, Pierces of Eight and Treasure Coins.  

1712 Two-Escudos from the Sante Fe mint.From Sewall Menzel's book.

I am no authority, but it is my opinion that this 2-escudo is very similar to that recently found.  As you'll recall from yesterdays post, the eight-escudo that I looked at was dated 1711.  If the recently found cob is of a similar date, it would be very much like this example, which is dated 1712.

Note the four half circles surrounding the cross and the circles and flourishes that would be at approximately the ten, two, four, and eight o'clock positions relative to the cross.  That at the 10 o'clock is apparent on this example, while that at the seven o'clock position is most apparent on the recently found cob.

The Menzel example shows the top part of the shield on the other side of the cob.  The example and recently found cob both show a similar part of the shield.

On the Menzel example above you see the date, but you can not see the date above the cross on the found cob.

Below is another example of a Sante Fe minted 2-escudo, but this one is an older cob.  The cross side looks different from the escudos shown above.  Notice how much smaller the circles and flourishes are.  This example also shows more of the legend on one side and also shows a mint mark and denomination on the shield side.

1622 2-escudos from the Santa Fe mint.
From Sewall Menzel's book.

My only conclusion so far concerning the recently found two-escudo shown at the top of the post is that it is from the Sante Fe mint and probably from an early 1700 date.  If you can correct me, please do.

That was a little technical, but I hope somewhat informative.

Dan B. has been finding a lot of shark teeth in shell piles.  He also found the following.  What do you think the two fossils are?    

Fossils.
Finds and photo by Dan B.

I can generally identify them, but if you can be specific, let me know what you think.

National Hurricane Center Map.

The tropics are lighting up.   The orange area in the Gulf has about a 50% chance of becoming a cyclone.

Gabrielle is a named storm.  Earlier Gabrielle was predicted to head towards Bermuda.  I think she might fizzle out.

And you see two other areas that have a chance of forming in the Atlantic.

At this time, I don't see any immediate impact to beach detecting conditions for the Treasure Coast.  Maybe in a few days, but I don't think so.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net