Showing posts with label Kip Wagner. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Kip Wagner. Show all posts

Wednesday, July 5, 2017

7/5/17 Report - Forty Years Ago: 1715 Fleet Treasure. Serious Storm Developing in Atlantic.


Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of TreasureBeachesReport.blogspot.com.

Forty years ago (Feb. 1977) Bowers and Ruddy Galleries auctioned 720 lots of 1715 Fleet treasure, mostly cobs, many gold and silver, but also some bars and artifacts from the 1715 Fleet. I decided to take a look back today.

It was in the 1950s that a hurricane ripped the Treasure Coast beaches and Kip Wagner was at the right place at the right time and started finding silver reales from the 1715 Fleet on the Treasure Coast beaches.  You know the story.  Kip and seven others formed the Real Eight Company.  Recoveries were sporadic and slow at times.  On one occasion in the 1960s, their blower exposed gold dubloons, and in 1974 another amazing day resulted in more than a thousand dubloons being recovered.

13 Pound Encrusted Clump of Pieces of Eight.
Source: 1977 Bowers Ruddy Auction Catalog.

Back in 1977 the clump of coins sold for $2000.


9.5 Ounce Gold Splash
Source: 1977 Bowers Ruddy Auction Catalog

The above gold splash sold for $2200.


37.25 Inch Gold Chain.
Source: 1977 Bowers Ruddy Auction Catalog


The gold chain sold for $2200 as well.

The auction house offered the following price guide for escudos in the auction catalog. 

Eights - $800 to $1300
Fours - $600 to $1000
Twos - $200 to $500

From a quick look at the page of realized prices, it looks like the realized prices were not far off the suggested prices.

To give some perspective, the price of gold in 1977 ran around $161.

According to one inflation calculator, it would take about $403 today to buy what $100 would buy in 1977.  That would mean the dollar was worth about four times more back then.

I was lucky to pick up the Bowers Ruddy auction catalog with realized prices in a local thrift store for $1 a number of years ago.

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Source: MagicSeaWeed.com
This disturbance has a 70% chance of becoming a cyclone in the next 48 hours.

It is still far out there, so it is difficult to tell where it might go.  Earlier predictions I saw had it going east of us.

According to the surf predictions, we'll just get a small bump in the surf around next Wednesday.

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I appreciated all responses to the blog poll.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

Saturday, May 6, 2017

5/6/17 Report - Valuable Reales With History and Provenance. Ribault Fleet Link.


Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blotspot.com.


Here is a four-reale that had an auction estimate of $1250 - 2000, but sold in the recent Sedwick auction receiving a bid of $14,000.

I highlight and discuss things that sold for a variety of reasons.  Usually they are exceptionally interesting.  You can also learn something about how things are valued by looking at those that did extremely well and those that did not do so well.

This example sold for way above the auction estimate.  As you can see, it was displayed extremely well.  It also had an interesting history and provenance.

Here is the Sedwick listing.

Mexico City, Mexico, cob 4 reales, Philip V, assayer not visible, extremely rare and popular provenance. 21-3/4" x 13-3/4". A typical 4R cob (toned, no corrosion) with off-center shield visible (mounted upside down) centered in its own niche below a drawing of a ship model and above its original certificate signed by Barry Clifford and other company officers, one of very, very few coins to have been released by Clifford (and not intended to be re-sold), and only the fourth we have seen, perhaps even more popular this year (2017) as it is the 300th anniversary of the sinking of the Whydah! Mounted in a matted picture frame with original Barry Clifford certificate #57501 and color picture of a ship. Recovered from: Whydah, sunk in 1717 off Cape Cod, Massachusetts.

For a little background on the Whydah, Here is a paragraph from a good National Geographic article.  I think you might like reading the entire article.

The Whydah's story begins in London in 1715 when the hundred-foot [31-meter] three-master was launched as a slave ship under the command of Lawrence Prince. Named for the West African port of Ouidah (pronounced WIH-dah) in what is today Benin, the 300-ton [272-metric-ton] vessel was destined for the infamous "triangular trade" connecting England, Africa, and the West Indies. Carrying cloth, liquor, hand tools, and small arms from England, the Whydah's crew would buy and barter for up to 700 slaves in West Africa, then set out with them on three to four weeks of hellish transport to the Caribbean. Once there, the slaves were traded for gold, silver, sugar, indigo, and cinchona, the last being a source of quinine, all of which went back to England.

Here is the link.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/whydah/story.html

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Darrel S. is selling some things.  I'm not going to turn this blog into Craigslist or anything, but you might like looking at these 1715 Fleet cobs, each of which has a noteworthy history.

Photos submitted by Darrel S.
Here is what Darrel said about these reals.

4 Reale belonged to Kip Wagner and was displayed in museum that burned before relocating to McLarty.
Purchased a few from Steve Hodge who purchased a collection from a friend of Reale 8, and investor.
Asking at least $400 due to photos and paperwork showing these coins on display and from Kip's personal collection. Will be included with coin.

8 Reale not for sale. Was in National Geographic.
If you are interested in these coins or any of the iron items that Darrel has for sale (see 8/23/16 post) , you'll have to contact him yourself and deal with him directly.  He says he'll be down this way before long.

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After doing some more thinking about the mystery item that looked something like a belaying pin, I'm thinking it might be something else.  I had a few emails.  Some people thought it looked like maybe a break handle or something.  I'm sure there were a variety of types of handles that it could be. If it came from a ship, one type of handle would be a bilge pump handle.  I'm sure there were others.

Let me know if you have any other thoughts on it.

Thanks to all who have sent ideas.

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I know a few of you are very interested in Ribault's French fleet.  I think I've mentioned this before, but it might be helpful to some of you now.

Here is the link.

http://www.staugustinelighthouse.org/LAMP/Research/FrenchFleet/frenchfleet

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A front came through and the wind is from the west today.  No change in beach conditions.  The surf remains small.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

Friday, August 28, 2015

8/29/15 Report - Mystery Solved. Bogota Escudos: New and Old Finds. Real Eight Co. Changes For Erika Forecast.


Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Another Group Of Recently Discovered Escudos
This grouping shows some escudos from Bogota, Columbia.  There are two signs that provide clues.

On the cross side of some of these, you see a design feature that some have refer to as "scissors."  I can see why they refer to it that way.  They do look a little like scissors, but not a whole lot.  That mark appears in each quadrant of the cross.  The scissors, are just a distinctive type of rendering of one type of Fleur-de-lis.  On some escudos they appear much larger than on others.

On the other side of the escudo, in the upper right quadrant of the shield, where Naples and Sicily is represented, you see two dots instead of two birds.  That is also a tip off.

You might remember how I was surprised to see lions and castles of Leon and Castile in the upper right of a shield that I pointed out yesterday.  I thought that was unusual and possibly an error.  It was not an error.  Well, it wasn't an error on the cob.  It was my error.

That is what you see on some of the shields of Bogota escudos.  I hadn't seen that before, but found it listed in an old auction catalog in which a lot of Kip Wagner's escudos from the 1715 Fleet were being auctioned.

Illustration From Bowers & Ruddy 1977 Auction Catalog.
In the illustration from the auction catalog shown immediately above, the Naples and Sicily symbols are in the upper left of the shield, and the Leon and Castile symbols in the upper right.

I'm only aware of 2-escudos and a few 1-escudos from the Bogota mint, and no other denominations. The auction listed 75 2-escudos from Bogota and five 1-escudos.  The catalog shows many more escudos from other New World mints and is a very good reference source.

There were eleven different shield designs for Bogota escudos illustrated in the auction catalog.  Two had the Sicily and Naples symbols on the left side of the shield rather than the right.  So it was not an error or anything like that, just a design that I didn't know about and didn't remember seeing anywhere before.

It was in the early sixties that the Real Eight Company found the famed "carpet of more than 1000 golden dubloons."  They hit big again in 1974.

Most of the Bogota escudos sold in the 1977 auction averaged around $150, which adjusted or inflation would be just over $600 in 2015 dollars.  The price of gold that year averaged around $150 an ounce.  I think you would actually expect to pay something more like $2000 for similar escudos today.  That gives some historical perspective to the money aspect.

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Different subect: I feel a duty to provide the following warning.

Hurricanes are dangerous.  I don't want you to take the danger too lightly.  I don't want a hurricane.  I just want a storm that stays out at sea and churns up some waves.

Hurricanes do too much damage.  And people die in hurricanes.  I'd have to be a raving fool to want that.

Many of you have been through hurricanes.  Some who have been through a hurricane have been on the out skirts where you didn't get the full force.  I want to tell all of you, and especially those of you who plan to come in from other areas, (I've heard from a few that plan on doing that already) don't drive into a hurricane.  It is not a party.

They do a good job of forecasting these things anymore, but they are not totally accurate. Make sure you know what you are doing.  Don't do anything stupid.

You never know what you might be getting into.  There can be downed electric lines, blocked roads and closed bridges.  If we get much of a hurricane, you might not even be able to get to the beach for a few days.

I don't want to unnecessarily alarm anyone by saying that all or any of that will happen this time, yet it could.  Storms can do strange things.  They can take unexpected turns.

Play it safe on the beach too.  If you haven't been in a big hurricane before, you simply don't know what you might be getting into.  When the surf is high and the waves big, you might not be able to get on the beach anyhow for a few days.  The bridges will be closed.   And it will be too rough and dangerous to get down on the beach anyhow.  Wait until it is safe.

Some of the best beach finds have been made days after a storm.  People who have made really big beach finds have told me they thought they were too late and it was all over.  But that is when the big find was made.

Even after the water has gone down some, a big wave can easily catch you unprepared and sweep you off your feet.  It can be very dangerous.  Trees and other large debris can be washing in an out in the surf.  You can lose or have your equipment damaged.  I've known more than one person who was experienced with rough weather detecting that lost a detector or scoop to an unexpected wave.  Don't take this too lightly.  Err on the side of caution.  It isn't worth losing your life.

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In support of the above, I received this message from Robert H.

You are 100 percent spot on. Those treasure coast barrier islands could be completely submerged under water with a full moon and big tides that were predicated the storm surge is what mainly kills people. As a survivor of one of the worse hurricanes being Andrew and being right in the heart of the storm many were lucky the storm surge wasn't any higher. I know certain areas did see that 15ft rise in sea level but I think most all were evacuated from those storm surge areas in advance thankfully. In all reality we were extremely lucky to survive that storm. If it slowed down and lasted another hour or two with that intensity many more lives including mine could had been lost. Would hate to think of any fellow Detectorist going to wait it out in there car right there ocean side and get swept in the ocean or the ocean swallows them and there car.

Thanks for sharing Robert.

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There are two changes with the forecasts or Erika.  The track has moved more south.  She is now expected to land down at the southern tip of the penisnsula, and she is expected to remain a tropical storm rather than developing into a hurricane.

Predicted Track of Erika As Of 8 AM 8/28
The surfing web sites are now predicting only around a five foot surf now.  That means that it might not move much sand or stir up much of anything on the Treasure Coast.

Keep watching for any additional changes.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net