5/12/20 Report - Metal Detecting Silverware and Conductivity Numbers. Sterling Silver Finds. And Mystery Piece Identified.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Silverware Used for Metal Detector Conductivity Readout Test.

As you probably know, I highly recommend testing your metal detector with a wide variety of types of targets so you get to know what your detector is trying to tell you.  I used the five examples shown above for a simple test I'll report on today.

From top to bottom is a two-tined for that I presumed to be made of steel.  Second is a spoon that is clearly marked stainless.  Third is a knife marked "Robeson 'Frozen Heat'".  Fourth is a fork marked "sterling" and then a marked sterling spoon.

Using the equinox the following conductivity numbers were obtained for each example, working from the top of the photo to the bottom.

Two-tined fork               -5 to -2

Stainless spoon              -5 to -2

Frozen Heat knife            2 -   5

Sterling fork                   18 - 22

Sterling spoon                28 - 32

Of course the numbers varied a little, but the above ranges are fairly good representations.  The position of the item matters, as does the shape.  

I believe the sterling spoon produced higher numbers than the sterling fork because of the flat round shaped area on the spoon.

My tentative conclusion is that you can tell the difference between an steel piece of flatware and a sterling or silver piece by the conductivity numbers.  The numbers for the sterling pieces was very much higher and in a relatively consistent range.  

I believe that experiments like this can help you better identify buried targets in the field, although when I'm in an interesting area, unless I have time constraints or something, I'm going to dig everything anyhow.

I should have included a silver plated item or two.  I might do that in the future.

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A Couple Silver Forks Marked Sterling.

If you've been keeping up with my daily posts, you know that I've been going back and looking through some old tableware finds.  You'll find a lot of tableware if you search old home sites, and you'll find some on the beaches and in the water as well.  Some of it will be old, some fancy and some plain.  The fanciest or oldest pieces aren't always the most valuable.  With current silver prices of $15.65 per oz. or about $.50 per gram, as it was this morning, a plain piece of sterling silverware can be worth a few dollars in silver content.

The two forks shown top of this post both weigh over 1.5 ounces each.  That figures to be about $20 in silver content for each - not a big treasure, yet enough to pay for some batteries.

Sterling Silver Fork and Spoon.

The sterling fork shown above is just over 1.5 ounces and the spoon just under 1 oz.

Of course sterling silver is not pure silver -  only 92.5 percent, so you have to take that into account.

Unfortunately most tableware finds will be stainless steel or plated rather than sterling or coin silver, but the oldest or most ornate will not necessarily be worth the most.  The fork and spoon shown above look plain and modern, yet have good silver content.

As for the companies, it gets confusing.  Here is what Wikipedia says about the International Silver Company.

In Meriden and nearby Wallingford and Middletown, the companies that were banded together to form the International Silver Company included these companies: Meriden Britannia Company, Meriden Silver Plate Co. , Middletown Plate Company, C. Rogers & Brother, Simpson, Hall Miller and Co., Simpson Nickel Company, Watrous Manufacturing Company, and the Wilcox Silver Plate Co., In Hartford, the following silver companies also became part of the corporation: Barbour Silver Company, Rogers Cutlery and William Rogers Manufacturing Company. Other Connecticut companies that became part of the corporation also include Holmes & Edwards Silver Company in Bridgeport; Plate Silver Co. in Derby; Norwich Cutlery in Norwich; Rogers and Brothers, and Rogers and Hamilton in Waterbury. 

From outside New England were Manhattan Silver Plate in Lyons, New York; and Standard Silver Company, Ltd. in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Into the 20th century, many silver designs carry either the International Silver Company brand, or the pre-existing brand continues, or both are listed as the design maker.

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A couple days ago I posted a photo of what appeared to be an old spoon showing a globe with silverware maker's mark.  I asked for help identifying the mark and the readers of this blog came through.

Here is what they found.

American Silver Company Maker's Marks 

Found by Mike M. (left) and JorgeY. (right)

Moselle Pattern Spoon

Submitted by Dan B.

Mike and Jorge found the makers marks as shown above.  Then Dan added the photo of the Moselle pattern spoon, and Alberto looked up the patent number and found the following ad for an American Silver Company sugar spoon having the same patent number as the spoon I was asking about.

Submitted by Alberto S.

Thanks guys!  I think that nails it down.  It appears to be a Moselle pattern spoon made by the American Silver Company in the early 20th century.

As I mentioned above, it can get confusing.  The companies that made silverware were often bought out and changed names.  The American Silver Company was the result of a buyout and then later the International Silver Company bought the American Silver Company along with other similar companies.

I haven't identified any marks telling what it is made of but I assume that it is silver plated like the item shown by Alberto.  Perhaps some of the other numbers on the spoon tell that.  I'll have that tested some day.

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The surf today is 2 - 4 feet with a northeast swell.

Source: MagicSeaWeed.com

Happy hunting,
Treasureguide@comcast.net

1/31/20 Report - Treasure Coast Beaches Generally Deteriorating. Mystery Find and Knives and Swords.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Vero South Beach Friday Morning.

I went out to check some beaches this morning.  My primary interest was in Rio Mar, which I hadn't checked for a while, and I wanted to see what the high surf had done there, but when I got there I found the Rio Mar access closed for a renourishment project.  I went down to Vero South Beach, and it looked like tons of new sand had been dumped there (See above photo.).

I don't know why they think people love sand so much.  I thought it was ugly.  It wasn't the best sand either.

When I went by Pepper Park I stopped to check it out too.  I had not been there for quite a while.

Pepper Park Friday Morning.

Pepper Park didn't look good either.

I stopped at Turtle Tail on my way north.  It didn't look much different than the last time I was there when the cuts had disappeared.   I talked to a couple fellows, who weren't getting any signals.

Wabasso Beach Friday Morning.

If you notice the white sand they piled on the banks, it starts up at the park but is also in front of the Disney Resort.  Did the tax payers pay for that sand in front of Disney?  I suspect they did.

Ambersands Friday Morning.

Like the other beaches I saw this morning, Ambersands beach had deteriorated since last week.

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Yesterday I posted a mystery item from Bob C.  Bob sent the item on a grid so we could get the size.

Mystery Item on Grid.

Photo by Craig C.

The item is about 2.5 inches long and one inch wide.  The hole appears to be a touch less than a quarter inch across.  It is said to be brass with engraving.

Bob said, "A couple people I have talked to suggested possibly off of a dagger or sword scabbard. One said there may have been a different metal "medallion" where the hole is."  

I thought it might be interesting to look at the possibility that it has something to do with a dagger or sword.  A scabbard is a sheath, so I don't think that is it.

Below is an illustration from an old Dixie Gun Works catalog showing knife handle assemblies of different kinds.

I couldn't get the left edge of the illustration in the scan, but I think it is good enough to do the job.  Notice that there are both square and round tangs.  The tang goes through the guard and into the handle.   So could the object be a guard.

Below is a picture of a bowie knife guard.  The squares are one inch, so the guard is about five inches long, a little over an inch wide, but, here is something to consider, is almost a half inch thick.

Is the mystery item sturdy enough to be a knife or sword guard.  It does not look like it to me.

Below is a picture of a couple swords.  The guard on the smallest one is still around six inches across.

Of course there are a a lot of different types of knives and swords.   At this point I'm not convinced the mystery object has anything to do with bladed weapons right now, but I'm not quite ready to totally exclude the possibility.   There are a lot of possibilities.  I might consider some others in the near future.  In the mean time, I hope you'll send your thoughts and opinions.

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I need to do some more cleaning and research on some of my finds.

It looks like the surf will be decreasing.

Source: MagicSeaWeed.com.

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net

6/24/19 Report - Encrusted Objects (EOs), Clumps and Conglomerates and Their Contents.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Photo of Terry holding the EO before cracking and what was in it. The canvas and hemp rope was still in intact.

Find by John C.  Photo submitted by Jerry P.

I received the following email with photos from Jerry P.

“IF YOU DON’T KNOW DON’T THROW” This is a lesson I learned from John C. One of the biggest mistakes I made when I first started hunting the Treasure Coast was throwing unidentified objects away. One day Terry Shannon and I were hunting the Vero Beach area and I heard a good target sound off on my GT. I pulled up an encrusted object aka an EO. I walked over to have Terry swing his coil over it and he agreed it sounded like a good target. At the end of the day I decided to crack it open in the parking lot and inside was a copper/brass grummet from a tarp, or at least that’s what I assumed it was. I gathered up the pieces and threw it in the trash can. When I got home I called John C. to give him the beach report and told him about the grummet EO. He congratulated me on the find and I thought he was joking and I told him that I threw it away. I will never forget what he said. “Excuse me Jerry, did you say you threw it away?” He texted me a photo from his private collection and it was the exact some copper/brass grummet partly encased in coral. He explained that it was in fact a brass grummet from a canvas sail probably 1800’s and don’t you know the rule, if you don’t know you don’t throw? Sick to my stomach as I came from a long line of sailers and that piece would look great in my collection. I asked John if he could do me a favor and trash dive first thing in the morning to retrieve the EO. He was there as the gates opened but after going through multiple cans he couldn’t locate it. Since Terry was going there a bit later that morning, and he seen me throw it in the can, I ask him if he could retrieve it. Both Terry and John scuba dive but a true measure of friendship is dumpster diving first thing in the morning, thank you both! Besides meeting new people and making new friends a large portion of the fun is the research and learning the story behind each object. If you don’t know don’t throw.

I would love to see some good EO’s, please share.

Jerry P.

Photos submitted by Jerry P.

Thanks for the email and photos Jerry. That is a good lesson that bears repeating.  I couldn't agree more.  Very good topic suggestion too.

I looked back through the blog and found quite a variety of encrusted objects, including such diverse items as coins, a gun barrel, cannon ball, sword hilt, and gold ring.

Here is one good photo showing and EO before and after cleaning.

I used electrolysis to clean this spike after removing some of the crust mechanically.

In order to keep the broken iron spike from rusting again, you could add a protective coating.

Coins can be totally encrusted too.  I had some that looked like nothing other than a ball of sand and shell bits.  I can't find of photo of that right now, but here is a cob that was partially encrusted before being cleaned.

Same Half-Reale After Some Cleaning.

Here are a couple encrusted objects that I've posted before and I still don't know what they are.  Here are a couple more EOs that I haven't opened or cleaned yet and do not know what they are.  I can tell they are partially hollow.

The biggest hollow one is about seven inches across.

Here is another than seems to contain a blade-like object.  It is about seven inches long and one inch wide.

Seven by One Inch Encrusted Object.

Here is a flat one, that has an intriguing coin-size bump on it.  The surface coins are for size only.

Thin EO With Bump.

You can see the bump near the upper right of the object.  Here it is from the side.

Bump on Flat EO.

I curious about the bump.  It could be a bolt or something like that, but that one will not be easy.

Some EOs contain a void where the object used to be.  A cast can be made the shape of the void.  I had a post showing a cast of a gun barrel made from such a void but can't find that post right now.

Two EOs.  
Top One Showing Square Void From Spile or Something Similar.

I had another post on using X-Ray to determine the contents of an EO.

The next clump is composed mainly of melted lead that stuck to sand and shells.

Melted Lead in Conglomerate.

Some clumps contain interesting things besides metal.  Here is a photo of a nice calcite fossil shell sticking out of a clump.

Clump With Nice Calcite Shell Showing.

And here is a clump containing a fossil tooth.  It is the brown nearly rectangular object near the center bottom.

Fossil Tooth in Conglomerate.

Here are links to some previous posts on EOs.  The first one is about an X-Rayed EO.

https://treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com/2018/08/82918-report-another-conglomerate-x-ray.html

https://treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com/2017/12/121217-report-clumps-conglomerates-and.html

https://treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com/2016/12/121516-report-key-find-appreciating.html

https://treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com/2015/07/7815-report-more-treasure-finds-from.html

https://treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com/2014/10/101014-report-subtropical-storm-fay-and.html

https://treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com/2012/12/12812-report-wreck-of-la-belle-and.html

Here is a good one I was looking for a just found.

Will R. found gun parts and was able to make a mold of the barrel.

https://treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com/2012/12/12912-report-encrusted-objects-again.html

Send me your photos of EOs and the objects found inside.

A lot of mine haven't been opened yet.

Sometimes I think it is better to leave some of the matrix intact.  Makes a nice display.

I have a lot of heavy-duty coin cleaning to do.  Maybe I'll get some good examples from that.

Happy hunting,

TreasureGuide@comcast.net

12/27/14 Report - Baby Ring. Finding The Density Of An Unknown Object. Hoard of Blades. Le Griffon Shipwreck. St. George.

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.BlogSpot.com.

Baby Ring.

Yesterday I showed a heavy pendant.  This is a small item - only .025 troy ounce. 

It is less than a size 2.

You might want to get a mandrel so you can determine the size of rings you find.  They are not expensive. 

This one acid tests as gold filled. 


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Yesterday I mentioned calculating the density of objects to help determine the composition.

Here is a web site that explains the basics.

http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=806

And here is a table of densities for most common metals.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metal-alloys-densities-d_50.html

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A hoard of sword and knife blades was found by a detectorist. 

Two blade fragments, a scabbard fitting, a multi-edged knife and six copper ingot fragments were discovered by Adrian Young a few metres apart...

Here is the link for more of the story.

http://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/archaeology/art511370-exotic-hoard-artefacts-found-in-field-hint-at-long-distance-bronze-age-sea-travel-say-archaeologists-in-wales

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Le Griffon vanished in 1679 on its way to the Niagara River from Green Bay, Wisconsin and it stayed hidden in Lake Michigan until just two years ago.

Here is a video,

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/12/24/divers-say-they-ve-found-holy-grail-of-shipwrecks/21120863/

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Picture of St. George submitted by Jerry R.

Jerry R. sent this picture and said the picture on yesterday's pendant is St. George slaying the dragon.  I'd say that is right.  Thanks Jerry!

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On the Treasure Coast the surf is still calm.  Tomorrow it is suppose to bump up to around five feet or so, however I'm not see anything but East and South winds predicted, so don't expect much out of that.

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Please remember to respond to the blog poll if you haven't already.  

Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@Comcast.net

6/6/14 Report - Valuable Paul Revere Thimble, Smoky Mountain Knife Works Knife Find, Cleaning & Happy Birthday Donald Duck

Written by the TreasureGuide for the exclusive use of treasurebeachesreport.blogspot.com.

Thimble Sold for $10,080.
Source: Kovels Komments

This gold thimble was made by Paul Revere about 1805. "L.D." is engraved on it.   It does not show Revere's maker’s mark, but it is identical to a thimble he made for his daughter which is in the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston.

This thimble sold at auction for $10,080 at a Leslie Hindman auction in Chicago on May 21, 2014.

Here is the source link.

I'd say that I've found at least a half dozen thimbles over the years.  I always thought that it was a bit unusual to find a thimble on a beach, but the number found seems to suggest otherwise.

I find it difficult to guess how old a found thimble might be.  Given the rarity of hand sewing in the modern home I'd have to guess that the thimbles are usually not recent drops.



I'm going to go off-topic briefly.   I just found this fun and interesting.   How old is Donald Duck?
What is his middle name?   And what is Donald's hometown.

This information was in the same issue of Kovel's Komments. 

Donald is 80.  He first appeared in The Wise Little Hen cartoon on June 9, 1934.  Happy birthday Donald!

His middle name is Fauntleroy, which was shown on his Selective Service Draft Card in Donald Gets Drafted, 1942.

He is from Duckburg.

OK, so I'm a bit of a Disneyphile.



Below is a detector find after it received a good cleaning.

Knives are common detector finds - more common than thimbles. 

As I've been pointing out, items like that are frequently found and removed from parks and beaches where they could be picked up by young kids.

This particular knife was dirty and had a stubborn dark green on the bolsters.  I tried a number of liquid cleaners and none of them worked very well.   Then I carefully tried steel wool, which did the job.  It cleaned up very nicely then.  I wouldn't use steel wool on just anything, and certainly not coins that might be valuable, but it seemed to work very well on this knife.

Don't use abrasive things like steel wool on items that can easily be damaged.  You probably know that you should never clean rare coins although sea-damaged silver coins are a bit of an exception and are often cleaned.

Here is a mark that I found on the tang of the knife.  It says, Smoky Mountain Knife Works.

I looked up similar knives from the Works and found some on eBay that are listed for between $100 and $200, although those also had the original collector's box.

The Smoky Mountain Knife Works also sells inexpensive knives as well as collector knives, and right now I don't know which this one is.

With the engraved cheetah on the blade, I guess there is some possibility that is a collector knife.  If you are a knife collector or know about that, please let me know.

Remember to inspect found items carefully for maker's or other marks.

Here is an illustration of the parts of a pocket knife.

Below is the source link.  You might find that handy.





http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=parts+of+a+pocket+knife&qpvt=parts+of+a+pocket+knife&FORM=IGRE


On the Treasure Coast the wind is out of the West.  The surf id two feet or less.  The surf will be small for a few days, and the tides are pretty flat.

Happy hunting,
TreaureGuide@comcast.net

5/14/11 Report - Late Hopewell Copper Point & Beads

Truly Significant Find by Larry Persina.

I was recently up north where I talked to Larry who brought this find to show me. It is a rare and important find that has been studied by archaeologists from both the Carnegie Museum and the Smithsonian. It is a copper point or knife with copper beads. It appears the point shows evidence that it was worn on a cord rather than used as a point. The experts believe that it was a ceremonial object rather than utilitarian and was possibly associated, along with the beads, with a cremation burial. The copper items were found far from where copper artifacts are normally found. The item is thought to be Late Hopewell.

(The lines in the photo came from the light coming through Venetian blinds and reflections on his display case.)

I was doing some off-beach hunting myself - way off beach.

I actually found a man-hole cover down in a deep gully along an old trail up north. I had to leave it for now because there was simply no way to get it up over the steep slippery bank with the equipment I had at the time. Not what I was looking for, but I thought it was neat nonetheless. I can get it some other time. I was on an old wagon/Indian trail that I find very interesting. Maybe I'll have some more on that in the future.

As you might know, I often recommend doing some different types of hunting once in a while, and that is what I was doing.


It appears that one of my recent posts did not post when it was supposed to or else disappeared prematurely. I got a note about that from a faithful reader. I don't know what happened, but after the disappearance, I reposted the same post on the 13th. Evidently there was some type of technical difficulty that I was not aware of until receiving an email about it.

Sometimes I do miss a day, and sometimes I might even miss two or three days. I try to avoid that but sometimes I don't get time to write a new post and sometimes I don't get computer access for one reason or another. If there is a day or two when a post doesn't appear, it might be a technical difficulty or it might be that I just wasn't able to create a new post. I know it will happen from time to time, so please accept my apologies in advance.


I also received an email telling of one detectorist who found a nice diamond ring and was going to go into detecting full-time. Since I am not trying to sell detectors or anything, one reader told me it would be good if I'd inform other readers about how low the return on investment is for detecting. That person was right. Very, very, very few beach detectorists actually make any kind of profit from detecting. Most are like fisherman who spend more on their hobby than they ever make.

Sometimes people, riding a high off of a big recent find, feel like going into detecting full time. Don't quit your day job to do that until you have done some real serious research.

There are a few pros out there but very very few, and all of those that I have known, primarily hunt the water in one of the top tourist areas in the country. If you intend to try to detect full-time, you better prove to yourself over a period of at least six months that you can make a sufficient profit before you give up your day job.

And don't forget to take into account your expenses. You will start out in the hole whatever amount you paid for your detector, scoop, etc., and then there will be gas, parking, etc. etc. It is not easy, I would say that 98% of those who detect could not begin to make a living by detecting for one reason or another.

First off, if you do not live in an area like Miami or Honolulu, where you have a lot of high-end tourist swimming beaches, I would bet against your chances of making a living at detecting.

And if you are thinking of becoming a Mel Fisher, be prepared to spend years and years and years spending money on boats, equipment, dive crews, etc. etc. before hitting it big.

Did you ever stop to think why the biggest most famous treasure salvage companies in the world are still seeking investors after years of publicized big treasure finds? Wouldn't you think they are rolling in money? Why would you want or need to fund your efforts with other peoples money? Why don't they fund their own efforts with their own profits so they can keep all the future profits for themselves? One big reason is that treasure hunting is a long shot that requires a lot of investment and can take a long time to pay off - and even that is not certain. You have to beat the odds to make it. If it was easy everyone would be doing it.

Did you realize that most of the people that made big money in the California gold rush were the people who sold alcohol, transportation, lodging or supplies and equipment to the dreamers? It's true. Very very few of the down in the dirt miners made fortunes that lasted. It was mostly the people who sold goods or services to the miners that made the big fortunes, or those that bought up the land and paid others to do the mining.

My bet is that most people that buy a detector and go out expecting to hit it big don't last more than a year or two. They try it and after spending a lot of hard time in the hot sun, give up.

A survey I did in this blog showed that a lot of the readers of this blog have been detecting more than ten years. That survey obviously didn't count all of those who gave it a try and gave up. They aren't reading this blog and they weren't represented well in the survey.

To be able to make a profit at detecting you have to be in the right place. Second, you have to spend a lot of time on the beach before you either learn you can't do it or learn how to do it. It doesn't come quick or easy.

When I started, I know that at least for the first year I was on the steep part of the learning curve. There is a lot to learn. I don't remember how long it actually took to learn how to get a decent return on investment.

I discovered that if I wanted to make a living by detecting, it wasn't as much fun. Believe me, there are many much easier ways to make a living. Just think about it a minute, if you have to go out there and produce, the pressure is on and the fun is gone.

I detect how I want to these days. If I don't want to go out, I don't. And sometimes I hunt where I want to and what I want to, even if the probability of pay-off is slim and the target is not worth much. I hunt what interests me, not necessarily what will bring in the most money. If you are out to maximize economic return, you can't always do that.

People like Larry, who found the copper point, keep their finds. They enjoy them. They are not interested in selling them.

The profit motive completely changes the activity. I won't explain all of that now.

Unless you are one of those people who has the passion, perseverance, capability, opportunity and absolutely right situation, detect as a hobby. Go out and have fun. Do it how you want to, not how you have to to make it pay.

I don't want to discourage anyone today, but I don't want you believing that you can quit your day job and make a living detecting without putting in a lot of hard time and effort, and still the odds are against you. A few, very few, people can do it, but the vast majority of people won't and don't want to. I've alluded to some of the reasons above.

If you are dead set determined to make a living at detecting, I'd simply advise you to take a least six months and prove to yourself that you can make a good enough profit to live on. Keep a detailed accounting of income versus expenses. You might be surprised how much expenses eat into profits. And don't go on what you think you can get for that ring you found. Actually sell it and see what you can get for it. There are expenses to selling, and when you have to sell, you can't always get top dollar. A pawn shop isn't going to give you top dollar. They'll give you about half of what they can sell it for. They have to make a profit on the transaction and there are expenses involved in selling. So don't go on what you think your finds are worth, find out what you can actually get for them. Valuations aren't income.

My bet is that most people would not even pay for their detector over the first year. And like I said, if you have to depend upon detecting for your living, you'll likely not enjoy it nearly so much. Unless you are already absolutely driven, keep it fun.


Treasure Coast Beach Forecast and Conditions

The seas have been running around 4.5 feet and the wind is south/southwest. I haven't been out on the local beaches for a few days but plan to check them out before long so I can report what has been going on. I'm not really expecting much but will let you know what I find. As I said, I've been off-beach for a while.

Low tide today is around noon with the high tide being about 6.


Happy hunting,
TreasureGuide@comcast.net